[WISPA] BGP Engineering

Wed Sep 5 13:51:29 CDT 2007

So, about $750-$900 per month?

Anyone on the list have a POP in Chicago to share bandwidth (and bandwidth
costs!) with Mike?

You may want to call around again on that.  You can definitely get a quad
bonded T1 up there, I'd imagine for about $1,200 a month; if you have any
good metro E providers, you can probably get 5 megs for about $800 or so
that would be a lot more accomidating than your current setup.

What's the address and npa/nxx of your pop?

Thanks,
-Clint Ricker
Kentnis Technologies

On 9/5/07, Mike Hammett <wispawireless at ics-il.net> wrote:
>
> $150 for a meg, though I've routinely hit 5 or 6 megs.
>
>
> -----
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Clint Ricker" <cricker at kentnis.com>
> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless at wispa.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 11:00 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] BGP Engineering
>
>
> > Call me stupid, but, don't screw around with your upstream.  Get good
> > reliable connections, don't get fancier than you have to, don't bother
> > with
> > VPNs, etc...
> >
> > If you want to save money and you have scale (minumum 10-25Mb/s, 100Mb/s
> > definitely), get the bandwidth directly from a carrier and supply your
> own
> > pipes.  But, go with a good carrier and get a good pipe.
> >
> > If smaller, at least get good upstream providers.  I can't imagine a
> cost
> > cheap enough to entice me to start jerryrigging the connection that I'm
> > relying on for my entire customer base....
> >
> > You spend too much time and money building your network and your
> customer
> > base to kill it over a few hundred a month.  If you're too strapped for
> > cash
> > to get "good connections", spend the time growing revenue (ie
> > sales/marketing) rather than cutting costs...
> >
> > -Clint Ricker
> > Kentnis Technology
> >
> >
> > On 9/5/07, Jeff Broadwick <jefflist at comcast.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> Would it be possible to bridge to the remote box on the provider's
> >> provider's NOC?
> >>
> >> Jeff
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: wireless-bounces at wispa.org [mailto:wireless-bounces at wispa.org] On
> >> Behalf Of David E. Smith
> >> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 11:37 AM
> >> To: WISPA General List
> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] BGP Engineering
> >>
> >> Mike Hammett wrote:
> >> > They don't route at all anywhere and have no intention of it.
> >>
> >> They have to route something somewhere, unless their whole network is
> one
> >> big flat thing, and that just makes me want to weep.
> >>
> >> If you're presently using their IP addresses, they probably don't want
> to
> >> BGP-peer with you for a host of sound technical reasons. If/when you
> have
> >> your own IP allocation, they may well reconsider that position.
> >>
> >> > I was getting ready to get my own ASN so I could bring in a second
> >> > upstream for the redundancy and increased performance that BGP
> >> > provides.  I don't yet have my own block as I can't yet justify
> >> > something that big.
> >>
> >> As long as you're planning to do so in the near future, that shouldn't
> be
> >> a
> >> problem. (The current ARIN guidelines basically say you have to either
> be
> >> multihomed, or intend to be multihomed in the next thirty days, to get
> an
> >> ASN. They're pretty serious about that, so have plenty of paperwork
> >> ready.)
> >>
> >> Just to avoid weird routing filters and such, it's usually advisable to
> >> get
> >> a direct IP allocation at or about the same time. Yes, this means
> >> renumbering your network. No, it's not fun, but in the long-term it
> needs
> >> to
> >> be done anyway. As long as you're presently using most of a /22 (four
> >> /24s,
> >> or about 1000 IPs) that shouldn't be a big deal.
> >>
> >> > I
> >> > certainly wouldn't want to pay for anything twice.  I envision the
> VPN
> >> > endpoint being at my provider's provider, so the only thing between
> my
> >> > endpoint and my network is my immediate upstream's network.
> >>
> >> Depending on network topology, though, you may still have to cope with
> >> double-billed traffic.
> >>
> >> Suppose there's a switch somewhere, to which your upstream, their
> >> upstream
> >> (and the rest of the Internet), and your VPN box are all connected. One
> >> of
> >> your customers loads a Web page. The page comes in from "the rest of
> the
> >> Internet", through that switch, to your VPN box (there's one trip),
> gets
> >> VPN'd up, goes back out through that switch (second trip), and across
> the
> >> switch to your immediate upstream (there's a third trip).
> >>
> >> If you can get it wired up in parallel with your upstream, so it comes
> in
> >> through that switch and goes out to your upstream, you may be able to
> >> avoid
> >> that kind of double-billing, assuming you're billed by the bit for
> >> traffic
> >> in the first place. Of course, if they were clever enough to do that,
> >> they'd
> >> probably also be clever enough to handle BGP natively and you wouldn't
> >> have
> >> to do this whole VPN song-and-dance routine. :)
> >>
> >> David Smith
> >> MVN.net
> >>
> >>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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